Okay, I am beginning to
read a modern text and translation of Oedipus Rex. I was interested in Oedipus
Rex because I had done some class work on Antigone, and I was intrigued on the
stories leading up to Antigone, mainly, the story of her father, Oedipus. I
only have a limited knowledge on the story at the moment, so I’m excited to learn
more about the story. My source is:
Sophocles'. Sophocles
(C.496–C.406 BC) - Oedipus Rex: Translated by George Theodoridis, www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Greek/Oedipus.php.
My first thoughts on
Oedipus are that he is a very patient and gracious king, who is willing to help
his kingdom. The people love their king, and give him much respect and reverence,
and Oedipus constantly puts the people before himself, even telling Creon to
speak his news to all the people, saying “I mourn for their lives more than I
do for my own”.
The city’s issue is an
interesting one. The murderers of the former king must be murdered for their
actions. I am confused on why such an old crime was chosen. Why weren’t the
murderers of King Laius caught and punished directly after the murder? Why does
it have to be so much time between the actual murder and the search and prosecution
of the murderers? Also, I know that the chorus in a Greek drama are the
background voices, but do they actually represent characters, or are they just
the necessary filler in the story? They spend so much time calling to the gods.
I am confused as to if they are the voices of the people calling to the gods,
or if they are their own people who call to the gods for Thebes issues. Perhaps
I am overthinking this and they are just there to provide context to the scene.
Happy to hear some other people’s thoughts. Thanks!
Hi Graham! Thank you for your questions and input about Oedipus Rex!
ReplyDeleteAs for your question about the chorus, I think that they are just normal people in Thebes. I think this because they normally interact with Oedipus; they talk with him about the murder. However, they also play an important role to the plot of the play because they occasionally break the fourth wall to the audience to give some insight on a situation that has happened in the play.
For the murderer question, the thing is that the answer may be more complicated than it seems. For one, they may not have found the murderers yet because Oedipus may not have ordered an investigation. This could be because he is the murderer, and he doesn’t want to be found out. All his grieving and claiming revenge could be a ploy to get people thinking that he is innocent. As the play goes on, there is more and more evidence that this could be true. When the blind prophet Teiresias comes to meet Oedipus about the murderer, he is hesitant to speak with Oedipus. Finally, under the pressure, Teiresias says to Oedipus “I ask you then to continue with your proclamation but there is no need for you speak to me nor to them from now on, because… because the wound that has ravaged this city, is you! You are the wound itself! You are what has polluted this city! You are the wound and you are the murderer!”. Oedipus quickly denies this and further insults Teiresias, but this does lead to the question of the prophesy. Based on the plot so far, do you think that Teiresias’s prophesy is true and Oedipus is just trying to cover up for the murder, or is Teiresias crazy, leaving Oedipus innocent?
Hi Sawyer,
DeleteThank you for your thoughts on this story as well. I see now that the chorus could just be different people, especially considering how Oedipus refers to one of the chorus as an “old man”. I am intrigued at Tiresias and Oedipus’s argument. I think that Tiresias is true to his word about his prophecy and his words to Oedipus. I think that Oedipus is unfortunately guilty, although I would rather think him not. I think that Oedipus is guilty, but doesn’t know it. His attitude towards Tiresias is rash and unnecessary, but I think that there is some justice in Oedipus’s words. He is working to purge his kingdom of a great sin, and still wants the best for his kingdom. Tiresias’s words, no matter how true, look to Oedipus as insults to his authority. Throughout this whole conversation, Oedipus struggles with the question, “Are Tiresias’ words actually true?” When asked if he will be happy speaking his words to Oedipus, Tiresias replies, “Sure, if truth has some power,” to which Oedipus responds “Truth does”. Oedipus being upset at Tiresias’ words could also be him knowing his words are the truth, but Oedipus just doesn’t want to accept them, so he puts the blame on Creon. I agree that being a king is an “envied life”. I just don’t understand what Creon could have gotten out of working with Tiresias to hurt Oedipus, even if he wanted the throne. The entire conversation is very interesting. I do have some questions though. After the discussion, the Chorus exclaim, “I see Apollo, the son of Zeus, armed with flames and lightning, hard behind him, pursuing him fiercely! Look! He is followed by the awesome, unfailing Furies!” What does this mean? An idea I had could be Apollo’s wrath is coming upon Oedipus, and the Furies are there to put an end to Oedipus’s life. Do you have any other thoughts on this part of the story? Thanks!
Hi Graham! Thank you for your great input on Oedipus Rex!
ReplyDeleteYour question about Apollo and the Furies is definitely interesting. I think that I agree with you on your answer; it would make sense that Apollo would bring his wrath on Oedipus and that the Furies are securing Oedipus’s doom. But I guess that one of my questions is how the chorus is able to see all of this; aren’t they just normal towns people? It may be because Sophocles wanted to find a way to convey this to the audience, but it does feel slightly out of place.
Now that I have read farther into the play, I have realized that a few of my earlier predictions about the play are wrong. One of them is that I said Oedipus was trying to cover up for the murder, but it turns out that he had no idea that he committed the murder: “O, what a wretched man I am! I think I have cast hateful curses upon myself without my knowing”. Another thing that I got wrong is that they were actually still trying to find the “murderer”, instead of waiting for the trial, which ties right back into my first point about Oedipus.
Knowing this now, I can see and agree that Oedipus was actually trying to be a good king, which leads me to my next question. Do you think that there could have been any way to escape the fate that was in store for Oedipus, or was Oedipus really tied to it no matter what? It would be interesting to see another version of Oedipus’s story where he never leaves his original home and lives his life there. I am excited to see how the last 500 lines of the story will go, and how the ending sets up for the next play.
Hi Sawyer,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your ideas on this play. On the topic of who the chorus are and how they work, I think we may be overthinking it. I ultimately think that they are the bridge between the play and the audience, and they help keep the play moving along. Now your question on “Could Oedipus have escaped his fate in store for him?” I sadly don’t think so. After all, Oedipus originally tried to run from his fate, but ended up running into it. In Greek plays, when the gods word is spoken, there is absolutely no way to avoid it. Every action a character to avoid his or her destiny is already thought out in the gods minds, and unfortunately for Oedipus, there is no escape.
I have some thoughts about Oracles and seers. They are supposed to be the voices of the gods to the people, but Oedipus and Jocasta constantly think that the Tiresias and the Oracles of Apollo are wrong. It makes me wonder how accurate these sources of information are, and if they truly can be trusted. It is interesting how much faith the character put in these oracles, but how easy they can say that they are wrong. I started to see how the story came together when Jocasta sent for the shepherd and hearing that Polybus is dead. I can see Jocasta is putting the picture together and doesn’t want Oedipus to figure it out. She exclaims to him “Who cares what man he is talking about? Forget him and forget all that has been said. You’re worried for nothing!” She doesn’t want to accept the true reality of her life. But for Oedipus, he is too far to turn back. He almost has all the puzzle pieces, and wants the puzzle completed, which will bring about his downfall.
Some questions as I read. Why didn’t Polybus and Meropi tell Oedipus of his past? They knew he was delivered to them, and if they had told him, he might have been content with them. My last question is about Oedipus’s prophecy. I talked about how Oedipus couldn’t have avoided his prophecy. But what if he never heard it? What if Oedipus never heard the all-knowing words of the gods? I would love to hear your input on some of these thoughts. Thanks.
Hi Graham!
ReplyDeleteFor your question about Polybus and Meropi, I think that the answer is extremely similar to how Jocasta handles the situation. She does not want Oedipus to find out about his past so that they can be at peace for as long as possible; there would be peace, but it would not change the unsettling truth. This is probably what Polybus and Meropi are thinking; they are hoping that the issue will settle itself out. As for your other question about Oedipus not knowing about the prophesy at all, I don’t think that would change a lot about the situation. In fact, I think it might have made things less stressful down the road for Oedipus if he hadn’t known. Like you said, if the Greek gods wanted a fate to be put into place, there would be no chance for any loopholes.
Something that I thought was interesting was that when the chorus sees Oedipus without his eyes and clothed in rags, they exclaim “What a hideous sight! More frightening then all the sights I’ve ever seen before”. What are the other sights that they are talking about? And were they similar to what Oedipus went through? I also think it is interesting to see the opposites that Creon and Oedipus become; one is blind, wearing rags and has a shepherd staff while the other has a crown and a golden staff. Could Creon be Oedipus’s foil? If so, what would the key relation between them be, that they both were kings? My final question is this: When Oedipus and Jocasta find out the terrible truth about the prophesy, could they have avoided their miserable ending? Could there have been a better way for them to handle the situation so that life and sight could not be lost to them?
Sawyer,
ReplyDeleteI can see how Polybus and Meropi just wished for peace in their lives, and could have ignored the issue concerning Oedipus’s birth. As for the visions of the chorus, I don’t think that they matter too much, just that they have seen many things as a chorus, and Oedipus’s misfortune is the worst that they have experienced. What I find interesting is the way that the chorus looks upon Oedipus before and after he loses his sight, and he discovers his terrible past. Before the incident, the chorus is there to help Oedipus, and help him in his search for answers about the past. However, after all of the tragedy, the chorus don’t even want to touch or be near Oedipus. Oedipus shouts to the chorus “Come, then! For gods’ sake, take me out of this city, take me, kill me, drown me, so you won’t ever see me again.” To which the chorus moves away from him and refuse to touch him. Then they seem to turn to Creon as their source of authority, saying “Here comes Creon. He is the only guard of our city now and he’ll advise you on all your wishes.” The support of the chorus seems to shift towards the person with authority and power.
As for your thought of Creon being Oedipus’s foil, he could be, considering that Oedipus doesn’t always believe the words of the gods, and Creon listens and works to understand their words. They somewhat mirror each other this way.
Now, the ending. I know that this play is a tragedy, but it’s almost impossible not to feel bad for Oedipus. As for a better way to handle the situation, there is always one, but the gravity of the situation is so much that people can’t think straight. Could the ending have been prevented, but it would be very hard to prevent it.
Overall I thought that the play was written well, but I do find the ending sad. I don’t think that Oedipus deserved what he got, especially since he tried to avoid it and do the best for everyone around him. One final question for me would be why does Creon tell Oedipus to keep Antigone and Ismene with him? Why couldn’t they go with Oedipus?
Thanks
Graham
We are almost there, Graham!
ReplyDeleteFor your question about why Antigone and Ismene couldn’t go with Oedipus, I think that there are two parts to the answer. One part is that I think Creon wanted to protect them against Oedipus because he believed that Oedipus lost his mind. Creon thought that Oedipus’s current mental state would be unsuitable to be a parent, so he wanted to make a better place for Antigone and Ismene. When Oedipus begs to keep the children with him, Creon states, “Enough now. Don’t ask for anything more. What you’ve been given so far has been a big enough burden to you”, showing that Creon did pity Oedipus (somewhat). The other part of the answer is that I think this is a setup for all of the events that take place in Antigone, because the setting of Antigone is within Creon’s kingdom.
As the story wraps up, something that I think is interesting, like you said, is that the chorus doesn’t care much for Oedipus anymore. They even start to mock him by saying “Citizens of my beloved Thebes! See now your great Oedipus! That famous man who knew the answers of great riddles. That man whose good fortune every man in Thebes envied! See now in what monstrous storm of misfortune he has fallen”. It seems to me like the chorus cares more about the outward appearance of a person, rather than what is within someone’s heart. Oedipus had the best intentions, but once he was struck with calamity, they didn’t respect him anymore. I also find it interesting that Oedipus says that the Greek gods hate him, because he never did anything intentional to make them hate him. Almost everything he did was accidental. Overall, I thought that Oedipus Rex was an interesting play that dealt with fate and consequence well.
Interesting focus on "fate and consequences" and man vs. gods as sources of MOWAW all the way through. In terms of "other sights," while the phrase is often use just generically, this chorus has at least already seen a terrible plague and a terrifying sphinx, so they definitely have a few dramatic things to which to compare Oedipus. Can you tell what new insight or understanding Oedipus and/or the chorus gain at the end of the tragedy, like Aristotle says is normal? Like when Creon at the end of Antigone gains an understanding of pride? Here, is it what you're talking about with tryIng to avoid the gods' declarations? Good use of quotes and questions throughout. Grade on Portals.
ReplyDelete